Curse

guffey · Jan 20, 2007, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuya B

Try your three heroes in Urgoz's Warren. Come back and tell us then how overpowering they are there.

look at the end of my post.

"keep it at 3 for normal places and mabye change it to seven for end-game areas."

that pretty much includes all elite missions and FoW, and UW, and SF, and DoA, and every other elite or endgame area

Kuya B · Jan 20, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by guffey

look at the end of my post.

"keep it at 3 for normal places and mabye change it to seven for end-game areas."

that pretty much includes all elite missions and FoW, and UW, and SF, and DoA, and every other elite or endgame area

Urgoz may not have been a great example because it's an elite area. How about just some of the regular missions in Factions where you have to fight mobs after mobs? The point is, while you can get by some areas with three heroes (FOW, UW), they are not overpowering.

Blame the Monks · Jan 20, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

/signed

Give me 7 heros please!

Phoenix Ex · Jan 20, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

/NOT signed

The system now is perfectly fine. Just enough so that the pro solo players can do what they want, but cannot get by the hard areas without at least knowing some skill synergy and good aggro control/flagging, and the understanding of how to protect the 4 weaker henchmen, and what skills the henchmen use. I could just imagine with 7 heroes....Aggro, afk, pick up loot -.-....

Kaisah · Jan 20, 2007, 11:29 AM // 11:29

OMG can you imagine the amount of hero windows! Granted you dont have to have them open but its nice to keep an eye on em all.

Anyways... heroes should die!

Yes they are handy... they are cool... they can use your builds and weapons but my GOD has it killed the party element of Guild Wars!

Im all up for heroes but they are too useful... people would rather buddy up with an A.I. than a poor little helpless nerdette! (or nerd for u guys on here).

lots of real peeps go as a pair and then take 3 heroes each to fill the party... what about the mass amount of other people wanting to do the same damn missions and quests as you?

granted you get so-called 'noobs' and the occasional idiot who loves to shout "noob" and spam their skills and weapons in party chat... but its all part of the fun!

were all heading for the end eventually its just id rather take someone along with me than be a recluse and go it alone with my trusty heroes...

i dunno ( -.-)... heroes for me just makes things too simple and easy. So having 7 heroes... there wouldnt even be a point in playing!

Go forth people... party and make friends!!! do it for Gwen!

p.s. im sick of seeing the little blue man number 4 above peoples heads in towns "WE KNOW YOU HAVE HEROES!"

/Not Signed

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Kai

Slirith · Jan 20, 2007, 12:19 PM // 12:19

instead of giving us 4 extra hero slots right off the bat. they could do one of two things....

1. since NF has 3 char slots, have chapter 4 have 4, chapter 5 have 5 etc or....

2. make hero slots buyable in the store for the same price as character slot.

ValaOfTheFens · Jan 20, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I dunno about 7 heros. That would mean 4 more characters I have to buy runes and insignia for and probably get to level 20. I've heaped a great deal of attention on Dunkuro, Koss, and Acolyte Sosuke and have developed a nicely functioning unit. With 4 more heroes I'll have to spend a great deal of time capping elites for them and buying necessary skills.

If they allowed us to use 7 heroes it would probably be conditional. Like for each hero beyond the 3rd the level of the foes in the area increases by 2. *lol* I can barely get the 3 heroes I use now to obey me. Koss and Sokuke simply run headlong into battle and so I usually have to use a flag to get them to come back.

Dunkuro runs around like a maniac, shoots off a few staff blasts, and then resumes running. I have them all on Guard but that doesn't do any good. I used to have Dunkuro on Passive but he died too much and so I put him on Guard so he'd defend himself when attacked. 7 insane AI would be almost as bad as a PUG in Elona Reach.

assassin_of_ni · Jan 20, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Personally i think having 7 heroes would be awesome for people like myself who hafta work most of the week and 10+ hours a day and dont have much time to sit around and look for PUG's in mission areas. Even with 7 hereos or 3 pugs are next to dead as is and there would still be people who will get groups for missions. even though a hero team with yourself could steamroll majority of GW there are still some missions where using heroes would be damn-near impossible. Doing dzagonur bastion would still be somewhat difficult since youde hafta individually flag heroes over to one side while you and 3 others stay on your side just to get bonus and same with THK. My suggestion would be to actually upgrade henchies to have builds that you an choose when selecting them with a matching weapon set. so now you dont have very tight nit synergy builds but now you have builds that may work better with yourself and your heroes or teams. Aaaand as it was mentioned before certain professions such as assassins and mesmers and others with a lil less use will find this very useful thanks to class descrimination. if anything make it 5 heroes not 3 but also not 7. They originally made it 3 because you could have 2 human players each use 3 heroes for a full team. If they were to ever make 7 hero teams odds are it would be for elite missions areas that require 12-16 player team size. this will for the most part be a neverending cycle. what ide really lke to see which would benefiet a lotta people due to increasing price of runes is make heroes obtain weapons, runes, insignias, etc through the pvp armor/weapon selection screen. Runes of major vigor aleady go from 4.5k - 5k and minor vigor is 2k where it used to only be 100g or so. Superior fire runes or healing runes will run you up 5-7k and a set of insignias can go for about 2-3k so for one hero your looking at easilly 7-15k for fully runed and insigniad armor THEEEN you have the weapons that you hafta buy which after a whle becomes rediculously epensive when you have more than 3 or 4 characters (which personally i have 10) itll prolly never ever ever ever ever happen but its just speculation.

Vahn Roi · Jan 20, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I would imagine the reasoning is simple; Anet doesn't want to totally kill the PuG.

absolutionx · Jan 21, 2007, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

I would imagine the reasoning is simple; Anet doesn't want to totally kill the PuG.

Heros>Henchies>Pug

Of all the pugs I play.....

75% chance of lone wolf who aggros
50% chance of leavers the first time our team gets mobbed
40% chance of ignorant player
15% chance of 007
10% chance of person who forgot to set skills

-Heros and Henchies-
Follow commands with no questions asked
.1 second reflex
Don't complain or leave
Dance with you

imp x · Jan 21, 2007, 05:51 AM // 05:51

I dont see why it would have to stop in general with the 7 heroes...I got so outraged when anet nerfed halls to be 4 man minimum i just quit playing- it's a push in a negative direction, just like the majority of their updates.

XB14 · Jan 21, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Nerfing Hero-way in halls was another huge step in the wrong direction. Heroes (effectively smarter hench) brought so many positive things to the game. Limiting the amount (maximum 2) in HA is rediculous. They gave us something sweet and put a limit on that sweetness. If you think for a minute heroes are better than you, you must be completely new to the game or just pve 24/7 (you are so used to henchmen bars, can't imagine fighting anything more powerful than monster ai, and anything doing more damage than your healing breezes and mendings can handle... are OVERPOWERED!). Heroes made it possible to pvp without the hassle of hearing yelling on vent, waiting in ID1 for god knows HOW LONG, hearing OMG LAG LOL IM NOT MOVING, ect. What was the point of nerfing the maximum? Are they really that overpowered? They have their serious drawbacks. If one were to lose to a hero team on a relic run, they need to consider going back to the pve they came from. heroes in ha WERE a quick alternative that ALLOWED people to make a group in an instant and get into action just as quickly as they made it. What some people believed is that heroes were all of a sudden entirely replacing people forever. They allowed people to have some fun until enough people in their guild logged on to form a group, or until a slot in a group already made opened. For me it felt like heroes were replacing all the people that left guild wars due to these updates.

Zinger314 · Jan 21, 2007, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB14

Nerfing Hero-way in halls was another huge step in the wrong direction. Heroes (effectively smarter hench) brought so many positive things to the game. Limiting the amount (maximum 2) in HA is rediculous. They gave us something sweet and put a limit on that sweetness. If you think for a minute heroes are better than you, you must be completely new to the game or just pve 24/7 (you are so used to henchmen bars, can't imagine fighting anything more powerful than monster ai, and anything doing more damage than your healing breezes and mendings can handle... are OVERPOWERED!). Heroes made it possible to pvp without the hassle of hearing yelling on vent, waiting in ID1 for god knows HOW LONG, hearing OMG LAG LOL IM NOT MOVING, ect. What was the point of nerfing the maximum? Are they really that overpowered? They have their serious drawbacks. If one were to lose to a hero team on a relic run, they need to consider going back to the pve they came from. heroes in ha WERE a quick alternative that ALLOWED people to make a group in an instant and get into action just as quickly as they made it. What some people believed is that heroes were all of a sudden entirely replacing people forever. They allowed people to have some fun until enough people in their guild logged on to form a group, or until a slot in a group already made opened. For me it felt like heroes were replacing all the people that left guild wars due to these updates.

Ironically, you state "pvp" in that post, where it stands for "Player vs. Player."

If you need 7 Heroes, then just learn to play better. Mhenlo and Lina are pretty good Monks. Devona is a good Thumper. Don't just scapegoat the henchmen.

XB14 · Jan 21, 2007, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Ironically, you state "pvp" in that post, where it stands for "Player vs. Player."

If you need 7 Heroes, then just learn to play better. Mhenlo and Lina are pretty good Monks. Devona is a good Thumper. Don't just scapegoat the henchmen.

I'll take henchmen, but thats capped too. I think you are missing my point. We (friends) used to henchway or heroway to fill time gaps between guild groups being full and a slot open. This is Ha im talking about. I dont expect to achieve much with 7 heroes besides a little fun... so making statements like "if you need 7 heroes L2play better" are absurd.

Zinger314 · Jan 21, 2007, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB14

I'll take henchmen, but thats capped too. I think you are missing my point. We (friends) used to henchway or heroway to fill time gaps between guild groups being full and a slot open. This is Ha im talking about. I dont expect to achieve much with 7 heroes besides a little fun... so making statements like "if you need 7 heroes L2play better" are absurd.

What may be fun for you may be detrimental to others.

If you played Heroway, it would be unfun for an opposing, all human team, if they expected a geniune match.

If you allow 7 Heroes, you devalue all accomplishments that PvE offers.

There's a difference between "fun" and "integrity." I strongly favor the latter.

Solus_the_Deadly · Jan 21, 2007, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Who then could i send to lure Mobs, Koss? No! Devona is my one and only Lurer

XB14 · Jan 21, 2007, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

What may be fun for you may be detrimental to others.

If you played Heroway, it would be unfun for an opposing, all human team, if they expected a geniune match.

If you allow 7 Heroes, you devalue all accomplishments that PvE offers.

There's a difference between "fun" and "integrity." I strongly favor the latter.

I guess i may be ill informed as to what the majority of people believe. If they (majority) believe that heroes are detrimental and ruin their fun because their expectations were higher, i would then agree. I think this is all overly exaggerated. It isn't like you fight only heroes, a match is 3min or so with heroes then its on to the next. During that time period where the limit was higher, there were many non-hero groups. I can't say anything about how it affects pve, maybe it makes more sense there. For now i believe the HA hero max update was a mistake.

Avarre · Jan 21, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Mhenlo and Lina are pretty good Monks. Devona is a good Thumper. Don't just scapegoat the henchmen.

Hench are terrible, in skill usage and the skillbar provided, as well as in their moving around and positioning. However, the same gimped skillbars and 'intelligence' are provided to the mobs you face, so the effects do not show quite as much.

The biggest power of the heroes is their skillbar, if anything.

No, players do not need 7 heroes. At this point though, who cares? The PvE game is in no way a challenge, so if people want to play with 8 customized skillbars, there's little reason to restrict them. This is for PvE however - fighting heroes in PvP areas like HA is mindnumbing, as they are designed with the simplest brute-force setups rather than anything interesting.

Quote:

If you allow 7 Heroes, you devalue all accomplishments that PvE offers.

Such as...?

strcpy · Jan 21, 2007, 08:00 AM // 08:00

I would love to see all 7 be heroes, and I think I may have replied quite a while back. I still agree that it is isn't as "unbalanced" as a party of humans. For me, I would adore playing with more varied team builds than what I can currently do. That's been the best part of the hero system, expanding it will only make the game better for a large part of the player base. Besides, "balance" in PvE doesn't make a lot of sense anyway - there is little meta-game to play. If you want harder take few characters, otherwise PvE will always be easy (DoA has already been hero-way'd).

7 heroes will benefit long term players mostly. Long term players should either be in an active guild, have an extensive friends list, or play AI. I can not see how one could be a "long term player" and *not* be in one of those three places. If you are you really have no one to complain to but yourself. Even those of us who AI the game usually have a few friends in their list.

As such, it shouldn't effect PUG's. New players or unexperienced players are still going to pug, long term players shouldn't be doing so unless they really want too (so that available AI doesn't matter). I'm currently playing an assassin through the game and there are people "LFG" in nearly all missions, the ones they are not didn't before the addition of heroes.

However, for PvP areas I'm not even sure the current compromise is decent. If we want to hero-way the area we have hero arenas (I would, however, support expanding the options for hero-way PvP). I suppose that to flesh out a character or two is maybe OK, but other than that no. If I wanted to play against AI I would play PvE (and is why I spend 99% of my time there. the little PvP I do is hero stuff). Us AI battlers already have our areas, let the *player* vs *player* people have theirs.

trobinson97 · Jan 21, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

It's funny when people say heroes killed (is killing) pugs. There is only one thing responsible for the decline of pugs. It's the fact that the PvE player base is now spread out (very thinly) over the three campaigns. It's only going to get worse when Chapter 4 is released so get ready.

Heroes for PvE in my opinion are the best thing introduced to the game. Most of the time I go to a mission area and look for groups, I get no replies. If, and in late Factions missions is a huge IF, people are there, they are just standing around. Although there are the solo A/E and E/A farmers. If or when I do finally get a group that doesn't consist of 5 w/mos, 1 dervish, and a paragon...well you know what happens then. Even if by some miracle I get a group that looks god on paper, you guessed it, the warrior is running all over the place, the monk is spamming heal party and the necro and ele are afk for a bathroom break or mom is calling.

Two man, hero-ing is the new PUG. Find yourself a person who has nice hero builds that compliment yours and has a decent grasp on controlling them and you have a yourself one awesome pug. I too would like to see 7 heroes, just for the simple fact that I see no reason to not have the option. However, 2 man hero-ing is a nice compromise for me.